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University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:58 am
by randdaddy
I am a clerk in a YSA BYUI Student ward. I have a sister that is 17. She was shown in the laurel group. LCR allowed us to change her origination to relief society. BUT IT WILL NOT ALLOW US TO ASSIGN HER AS A VISITING TEACHER.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:24 am
by russellhltn
Do you have her record, or is she an out-of-unit member? An out-of-unit member can't be assigned as HT/VT.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:43 pm
by scgallafent
The business rules provided to the developers currently require a sister to be 18 years old to be assigned as a visiting teacher. I talked with one of the managers responsible for this and we will look at having that rule reviewed.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:02 pm
by russellhltn
scgallafent wrote:The business rules provided to the developers currently require a sister to be 18 years old to be assigned as a visiting teacher.

I'm surprised this issue didn't come up before.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:52 pm
by jdlessley
Handbook 2, 16.2 , indicates young single adults are single members between and inclusive to those from 18 years of age to 30 years of age. I think this is where the business rules scgallafent is referring to is coming from. I don't see any exception to define a 17 year-old as a young single adult similar to that found in Handbook 2, 9.1.4, for Relief Society membership.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:49 pm
by russellhltn
jdlessley wrote:Handbook 2, 16.2 , indicates young single adults are single members between and inclusive to those from 18 years of age to 30 years of age. I think this is where the business rules scgallafent is referring to is coming from. I don't see any exception to define a 17 year-old as a young single adult similar to that found in Handbook 2, 9.1.4, for Relief Society membership.

However, all I'm seeing is a parenthetical comment on the age range - probably to distinguish it from the Single Adults (31+). It's no where in the definition unless it's defined by the word "adult". In contrast, 16.1 (SA) does make a specific age definition.

But if the sister in question is not a YA, then what ward should she be attending? Paragraph 2 under "Membership" of Handbook 1: 9.1.6 indicates that single students living in on-campus housing should attend the ward that serves that school. If she were to attend a family ward, she'd most likely be placed in RS, not the youth program.

Bottom line, while it's not my decision, I just can't see saying that a 17yo at BYU-I isn't a YA. It just seems too disruptive on a number of fronts. And I'd take an educated guess that she'll turn 18 within the next 75 days. (Some school systems allow students to start school based on reaching the age of admission by the end of the calendar year rather than requiring that they be that age when they start.)

Now the fun one to contemplate: a bright student that skipped a grade.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:54 pm
by kellymab
The exception to the 18yo rule is found in Handbook 2 10.1.5. Under the "Eighteen-Year-Old Young Women" heading it reads:

"Because of individual circumstances, such as personal testimony, maturity, school graduation, desire to continue with peers, and college attendance, a young woman may advance into Relief Society earlier than her 18th birthday or remain in Young Women longer. Each young woman counsels with her parents and the bishop to decide what will best help her remain an active participant in the Church."

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:07 pm
by russellhltn
kellymab wrote:The exception to the 18yo rule is found in Handbook 2 10.1.5. Under the "Eighteen-Year-Old Young Women" heading it reads:

Which also makes the VT issue a problem for traditional wards as well.

But jdlessley was approaching this from the standpoint of a 17yo shouldn't be in a YSA ward as there's nothing that says you can have a 17yo YSA. Being in RS doesn't automatically make you an "adult". An interesting point, but one what opens a can of worms.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:20 am
by kellymab
The problem started when they got rid of single student wards a few years back and made them all YSA wards. Prior to that, you we not allowed to technically enter a YSA ward unless you were 21. You could however be in a student singles ward once you started college. There were two different types of singles wards at the time.

If you were to ask any church school where a 17 year old attends church that is attending their school, they will say YSA. Not all family wards whose boundaries cover student housing have ym/yw. I agree that goes back to church education board having a meeting with every to straighten this out.

It was pointed out to me when I tried to go to the singles ward over the summer when I came home from school after my freshman year. The handbook prior to 2010 had that info.

Re: University student. LCR won't let be a VT Companion

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:04 am
by russellhltn
kellymab wrote:Prior to that, you we not allowed to technically enter a YSA ward unless you were 21. You could however be in a student singles ward once you started college. There were two different types of singles wards at the time.

I don't remember it being that low. I'm thinking more like 19 or so - but yes, not all YSA could attend a YSA ward. (And with the age cap, not all SA can attend a SA ward now.)

And the two types of singes wards were set up differently. One could pull bishopric councilors from the singles membership, the other had use out-of-unit (married) members.