LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

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mevans
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LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby mevans » Sun May 31, 2015 9:00 am

I'm wondering if anyone out there can tell me more details about the new LCR 3.0 feature to allow out-of-unit membership. The common scenario for this may be a child whose parents have divorced and alternates weeks with each parent. The release notes give this scenario, which I'll use for my post: "such as a young woman visiting her father every other Sunday"

Here are some questions I have about how this works:
  • I assume the person will only appear in LCR and not in the Directory app, correct? For example, in the Directory, if I look at a list of young women, I would not see the out-of-unit child, but if I look at the list in LCR, I would see her.
  • Will I be able to look up the child by name in LCR, or will the child only appear on organization lists?
  • If the child's membership record has an associated photo, will it be shown with the out-of-unit record in LCR (assuming the record exists)?
  • Looking at the Father's record in LCR, will the out-of-unit daughter now have a hyperlink to bring up her out-of-unit record?
  • Will LCR give me the unit number of where the child's record is located?
  • Can the child be given a calling in the unit where there is only an out-of-unit record?

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sbradshaw
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby sbradshaw » Sun May 31, 2015 4:41 pm

I don't have ward-level access to Leader and Clerk Resources that would allow me to add out-of-unit members into a ward, but based on how out-of-unit membership records tend to work, these are my assumptions:

mevans wrote:[*]I assume the person will only appear in LCR and not in the Directory app, correct? For example, in the Directory, if I look at a list of young women, I would not see the out-of-unit child, but if I look at the list in LCR, I would see her.
I would expect her to show up in the LDS Tools app, but probably not in the LDS.org Directory.

mevans wrote:[*]Will I be able to look up the child by name in LCR, or will the child only appear on organization lists?
Yes, you can look out-of-unit members up by name in Leader and Clerk Resources.

mevans wrote:[*]If the child's membership record has an associated photo, will it be shown with the out-of-unit record in LCR (assuming the record exists)?
No, only the home ward is able to add a photo, and the out-of-unit ward isn't able to see it. I consider this a bug that I hope they fix one of these days.

You won't be able to see ordinance information, temple recommend information, or household information.

mevans wrote:[*]Looking at the Father's record in LCR, will the out-of-unit daughter now have a hyperlink to bring up her out-of-unit record?
This is an interesting corner case – I expect it should work that way, but I don't know if developers have thought about that so it might not work without a future bug fix.

mevans wrote:[*]Will LCR give me the unit number of where the child's record is located?
Yes, you will see her home ward name and unit number, with a popup that shows information from CDOL.

mevans wrote:[*]Can the child be given a calling in the unit where there is only an out-of-unit record?
I imagine technically yes, but I don't know how that fits in with policy.
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby jdlessley » Sun May 31, 2015 5:02 pm

sbradshaw wrote:
mevans wrote:[*]Can the child be given a calling in the unit where there is only an out-of-unit record?
I imagine technically yes, but I don't know how that fits in with policy.

Something quite similar is discussed in the thread LCR 3.0: Out of unit record for adults.
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Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

mevans
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby mevans » Sun May 31, 2015 8:29 pm

Thanks for your answers.

sbradshaw wrote:
mevans wrote:[*]I assume the person will only appear in LCR and not in the Directory app, correct? For example, in the Directory, if I look at a list of young women, I would not see the out-of-unit child, but if I look at the list in LCR, I would see her.
I would expect her to show up in the LDS Tools app, but probably not in the LDS.org Directory.

When I wrote my question, I was thinking that LDS Tools grabbed information from the Directory, not LCR, so I didn't mention LDS Tools explicitly. As I thought about it and saw your answer, I realized that LDS Tools does give some permissions by calling to see more data than Directory, so I wonder where it gets information. Maybe the Directory and LCR get info from the same API and just render it differently. I guess we'll have to see what happens here. I could see cases for it working and not working. Or maybe LDS Tools will need an update before it works?

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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby sbradshaw » Sun May 31, 2015 10:51 pm

The LDS.org Directory doesn't get updated as often as Leader and Clerk Resources or the LDS Tools app, so there are several missing features and bugs. It could use an overhaul. I think all three pull from one separate, behind-the-scenes membership database, just pulling different bits of information and displaying them differently. Leader and Clerk Resources is currently the most complete membership source exposed to ward leaders, and seems to be the most reliable.
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby scgallafent » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:30 am

mevans wrote:I assume the person will only appear in LCR and not in the Directory app, correct? For example, in the Directory, if I look at a list of young women, I would not see the out-of-unit child, but if I look at the list in LCR, I would see her.

Work to update Directory to support this hasn't been completed. I'm not sure of their timeline for supporting this and haven't heard how it will be supported.

mevans wrote:Will I be able to look up the child by name in LCR, or will the child only appear on organization lists?

The record is viewable like other records in LCR, but not all information is available. There is a message that indicates that "[b]ecause this member lives outside your unit not all member information is available."

mevans wrote:If the child's membership record has an associated photo, will it be shown with the out-of-unit record in LCR (assuming the record exists)?

I'm not sure -- I haven't tested this personally and haven't been involved in discussions about it.

mevans wrote:Looking at the Father's record in LCR, will the out-of-unit daughter now have a hyperlink to bring up her out-of-unit record?

Yes

mevans wrote:Will LCR give me the unit number of where the child's record is located?

Yes.

mevans wrote:Can the child be given a calling in the unit where there is only an out-of-unit record?

Yes.

mevans
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby mevans » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:58 pm

scgallafent wrote:
mevans wrote:Can the child be given a calling in the unit where there is only an out-of-unit record?

Yes.


Handbook 2, 19.1.1 states that either (1) the membership record must be in the ward to extend a calling OR (2) the bishop has talked with the previous bishop, but the record is not necessarily in the ward (I find item 2 to be very interesting and am not sure how it's used in reality)...

So the rationale for being able to extend a calling is that and out-of-unit membership record is a membership record in the ward, so it's okay? I assume both bishops will have communicated about it.

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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby rpyne » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:42 pm

mevans wrote:[*]I assume the person will only appear in LCR and not in the Directory app, correct? For example, in the Directory, if I look at a list of young women, I would not see the out-of-unit child, but if I look at the list in LCR, I would see her.


If she doesn't show up in the Young Women listing, then this feature is almost worse than not having it at all. When a person, especially a youth, does not show up on lists and rolls along with their peers, it can easily make them feel ostracized. Likewise, there is little to gain by having an out of unit record without it showing current ordinance information. For example, some time ago we had a young man who was attending our ward full time though his membership record was in a different ward. This was because his mother had legal custody but he spent almost every weekend with his father in our ward. When he turned 12, both bishops interviewed him and he was to be ordained in his mother's ward, where his record was located. It ended up that he was denied the opportunity to pass the sacrament for several months because we had no confirmation that the ordination had taken place. If we had been able to verify the ordination through access to the record, he would have been able to serve along with his friends and quorum members. We have a similar case coming up in just a couple of months. We have four grandchildren of a ward member who attend our ward 100% of the time, but for reasons of stewardship, home teaching, and fellowshipping, their records remain in another ward with their mother (the father is deceased). One of the boys will be turning 12 soon.

Back in the days of paper membership records, there was a system called a pink record (the paper was pink) where a complete copy of the membership record would be forwarded to a temporary or otherwise participating ward while the official record remained in their "home" ward. To allow a ward to properly provide for the needs of these Out of Unit members, the record needs to be complete.

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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:38 am

mevans wrote:So the rationale for being able to extend a calling is that and out-of-unit membership record is a membership record in the ward, so it's okay? I assume both bishops will have communicated about it.

I think the simple answer is that out-of-unit callings isn't limited to just adults or just bishoprics.
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Re: LCR 3.0 and out-of-unit membership for children

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:48 am

rpyne wrote:If she doesn't show up in the Young Women listing, then this feature is almost worse than not having it at all.

It appears they do show up - at least in rolls printed from LCR. See this post. Just keep in mind, that these out-of-unit members should not be counted in the ward's quarterly report.


rpyne wrote:When he turned 12, both bishops interviewed him and he was to be ordained in his mother's ward, where his record was located. It ended up that he was denied the opportunity to pass the sacrament for several months because we had no confirmation that the ordination had taken place.

Sounds like the bishops hadn't been talking. Why did it take months to fix this?


rpyne wrote:Back in the days of paper membership records, there was a system called a pink record (the paper was pink) where a complete copy of the membership record would be forwarded to a temporary or otherwise participating ward while the official record remained in their "home" ward. To allow a ward to properly provide for the needs of these Out of Unit members, the record needs to be complete.

Sounds a lot like a IOS. And it didn't automatically update either.
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