Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

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curtcarp
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Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby curtcarp » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:59 pm

When viewing Elders Quorum (I'm the EQ Pres), I'm seeing what looks like the household emails rather then individual emails. In some households, I guess the wife wears the pants so to speak, and her email is listed as the household email. This means that when sending an email to all Elders, in some cases it goes to the wife instead of to the Elder as intended. Even when the Elder has their own individual email listed and it's visible to me.

I checked the reverse situation of viewing Relief Society list when the husband's email is the household email, and the problem does not appear to exist there. So it is not a problem for all groups. I did not check all groups, so I don't know which, if any beyond EQ, are affected.

Thanks,

Cutr

curtcarp
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby curtcarp » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:36 pm

Update: Note that when I print the list the emails are fixed! Bizarre.

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aebrown
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby aebrown » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:29 am

I'm not so sure this would be considered a bug by those who designed the system. As near as I can tell, these are the principles that are followed, and they are followed consistently (even if you and I might consider the priorities to be a bit odd):
  • In the Ward Organizations lists (and in the Email all Elders... and similar links), the individual email address is listed, unless it has a privacy setting of "Private - Leadership Only". A possible rationale for this is that these email addresses can be used directly for sending email, and for whatever reasons, the Church has decided not to use private email addresses for this purpose (the same philosophy is used for Send A Message on LCR).
  • When a list containing individuals is printed, the privacy setting is applied according to the viewing privileges of the person who is generating the printout. So if an individual email exists, but is private, but the person printing the list has permission to see private addresses, then the individual email address will be shown.
I think you'll find that if you look more closely at what you thought were inconsistencies between RS and Elders, that the difference is entirely explained by privacy settings and the rules I listed above. This also explains the difference between printouts and viewing/emailing.

curtcarp
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby curtcarp » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Did you notice that the email listed when you view the list is different than the email listed when you print the list? Even when both the display view and the print view are generated by the same person? Maybe we can start by agreeing that that's not expected behavior?

Then I would point out that I actually do see both individual and household emails for the affected families, so it does not appear to be a visibility problem.

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aebrown
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby aebrown » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:51 pm

curtcarp wrote:Did you notice that the email listed when you view the list is different than the email listed when you print the list? Even when both the display view and the print view are generated by the same person? Maybe we can start by agreeing that that's not expected behavior?

Yes, I noticed that -- I pointed that out specifically. My first point covered what the rule is for viewing/emailing, and the second point covered what is printed.

I would agree that this is unusual, and not what I would expect, but as I explained, it is consistent with other behavior related to emailing. I'm not trying to justify or even support the way it works -- I'm just trying to help you understand HOW it works.

curtcarp wrote:Then I would point out that I actually do see both individual and household emails for the affected families, so it does not appear to be a visibility problem.

But you never explained what the visibility settings are for the people that you think have unexpected visibility. Visibility settings DO affect how certain things work, even if you have permissions to see them. So it could very well be an issue that is explained by visibility settings. If you'll look at the visibility settings for these individuals and their households, I think you will find clues as to why they display and print differently from others.

curtcarp
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby curtcarp » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:34 pm

I don't know the visibility settings, because I can't see them. It makes no sense to me that it could be by-design that what you see when I view and what I see when I print should be different. But it feels like we're going in circles on that.

I'm not really looking for clues, I'm looking to get the behavior fixed. Or for someone who owns the policy/implementation to justify it's current behavior if it is deemed correct, which both of us do not agree with. Is there someone you can bring into the discussion to help move it forward? Thanks.

russellhltn
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby russellhltn » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:59 pm

I did flag the developers, but I got no reply. They're busy with all the different projects, so they might have just logged it for now and moved on with their priority list.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

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aebrown
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Re: Bug: Household email shown in Elders list

Postby aebrown » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:22 pm

curtcarp wrote:I'm not really looking for clues, I'm looking to get the behavior fixed. Or for someone who owns the policy/implementation to justify it's current behavior if it is deemed correct, which both of us do not agree with. Is there someone you can bring into the discussion to help move it forward? Thanks.

The reason I've spent time trying to explain how it works is so that you could take steps to remedy the situation at your ward's level. Trying to get an issue with these tools fixed on any particular time frame will generally lead to frustration, because the users don't set the priorities for software changes, and it often take substantially longer for issues to be addressed than many of us might hope for.

In my last post, I had forgotten that you are an EQ president and thus can't see the visibility settings. But your ward clerk can see them. I'd suggest that you discuss the issue with him. It could be that these people have "Ward" visibility for their email addresses, and changing it to "Stake" visibility (if, of course, the members are willing to make or approve such a change) could very well fix the behavior that is bothering you.


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