removing entry completely from ward directory

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annesusan
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removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby annesusan » Sat May 18, 2013 2:12 am

if I wish to remove my household entry from the ward directory completely (not just adjust the privacy settings, but remove the whole entry) how can I accomplish this? As far as I have been able to research online, I am not able to "delete" myself.

Many thanks.

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aebrown
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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby aebrown » Sat May 18, 2013 3:29 am

annesusan wrote:if I wish to remove my household entry from the ward directory completely (not just adjust the privacy settings, but remove the whole entry) how can I accomplish this? As far as I have been able to research online, I am not able to "delete" myself.

The privacy settings allow you to set your household profile to be visible only to a handful of leaders and clerks (about 9 people in your ward, and about 12 in the stake). See the section "Callings with Administrative Access" in Roles and Responsibilities for the exact list. If you set your household profile to be "Private -- Leadership Only," then no one else will be able to see your household in the Directory on LDS.org.

So your request to "delete" yourself really comes down to a hope that you can stop your bishopric, stake presidency, and the few clerks and website administrators that work with them from seeing you on the Directory. I don't think there's anyway for you to do that.

You already have the ability to hide your household from everyone else. But since there's such a tiny difference between "deleting" yourself and making your household private, I don't see why it would matter. Almost all those leaders have other ways to see your household information using other tools anyway; they have been given the responsibility to watch over all members of their ward/stake, so they do need to be able to know who is in the ward.

annesusan
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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby annesusan » Sat May 18, 2013 11:56 am

Thank you for your reply.

annesusan wrote:Almost all those leaders have other ways to see your household information using other tools anyway;


That's kind of my point; whilst only "9 people in my ward, and 12 in my stake" have access to my information, where I live callings change so frequently that over a period of say 3 years, a lot of people, many of whom I won't know, will have access to information about myself and my children, even if it is on the "private" setting.

As these leaders do have access to my details by using "other tools" then it is surely not essential to be listed in the online Directory, so why shouldn't I be able to "delete" my household? I have never signed up to any other online forum or site which does not offer an "unsubscribe" function.

I'd be interested to know if there is an official policy this subject.

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aebrown
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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby aebrown » Sat May 18, 2013 12:23 pm

annesusan wrote:As these leaders do have access to my details by using "other tools" then it is surely not essential to be listed in the online Directory, so why shouldn't I be able to "delete" my household?

Although I suppose you can argue that it is "not essential to be listed in the online Directory," if you were somehow removed from the online Directory, you would make it harder for those leaders to do their administrative work using the Directory. When they access lists from the Directory, they would somehow have to remember that you are not on those lists, but you are still a member of the ward. So if you could be removed, you wouldn't be gaining any additional privacy, but you would make their work more difficult. I don't see the point in that, but this is all rather theoretical anyway, since the capability you are asking for doesn't exist.

annesusan wrote: I have never signed up to any other online forum or site which does not offer an "unsubscribe" function.

I'd be interested to know if there is an official policy this subject.

In the Edit Profile section of the Directory's help system, you can read the last section, which is titled "Review the Privacy Agreement." The relevant quote there is:
You may opt out of participation in the on-line directory, mapping, calendaring, and other related features provided for Church members at any time by simply unchecking the appropriate box in your profile. This will prevent your personal information from being displayed to other Church members living in your Church unit and limit access to your membership information to only Church leaders.

So the official policy says that you can " limit access to your membership information to only Church leaders," but there are no options to hide the information from those leaders. With the current functionality and policy, this is as close as you can come to "unsubscribing."

If you would like to propose changes in how this works, you are always welcome to submit a suggestion using the Submit Feedback link on LDS.org.

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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby russellhltn » Sat May 18, 2013 12:59 pm

annesusan wrote:where I live callings change so frequently that over a period of say 3 years, a lot of people, many of whom I won't know, will have access to information about myself and my children, even if it is on the "private" setting.


Note that when someone is released from their calling, they lose access to that information.
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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby gregwanderson » Sat May 18, 2013 9:12 pm

Put yourself in the ward leaders' shoes for a moment. I never thought about the issues they faced before I started attending Ward Council meetings and then, as Executive Secretary, being a part of the Bishopric meetings. They have responsibilities and are earnestly trying to do their duties.

How can they fulfill duties with regards to Home Teaching, Visiting Teaching or extending callings to ward members if someone wants to be removed entirely from the ward directory, including what ward leaders see? With great difficulty, I would think. It's bad enough trying to figure out what to do about a "less-active" member who wishes no contact. But what about an "active" member who can only be contacted face-to-face at church meetings and wishes that nobody knows their address, phone number, email, etc.? The church just isn't organized for such an arrangement.

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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby annesusan » Sun May 19, 2013 1:59 am

Thanks again for your responses.

To reply to points made first:

When they access lists from the Directory, they would somehow have to remember that you are not on those lists, but you are still a member of the ward. So if you could be removed, you wouldn't be gaining any additional privacy, but you would make their work more difficult. I don't see the point in that, but this is all rather theoretical anyway, since the capability you are asking for doesn't exist.


So essentially the Online Directory, you are saying, is for the convenience of the Priesthood Leaders?

So the official policy says that you can " limit access to your membership information to only Church leaders," but there are no options to hide the information from those leaders. With the current functionality and policy, this is as close as you can come to "unsubscribing."

If you would like to propose changes in how this works, you are always welcome to submit a suggestion using the Submit Feedback link on LDS.org.


Thank you for that link. I shall follow it up.

Put yourself in the ward leaders' shoes for a moment. I never thought about the issues they faced before I started attending Ward Council meetings and then, as Executive Secretary, being a part of the Bishopric meetings. They have responsibilities and are earnestly trying to do their duties.

How can they fulfill duties with regards to Home Teaching, Visiting Teaching or extending callings to ward members if someone wants to be removed entirely from the ward directory, including what ward leaders see? With great difficulty, I would think. It's bad enough trying to figure out what to do about a "less-active" member who wishes no contact. But what about an "active" member who can only be contacted face-to-face at church meetings and wishes that nobody knows their address, phone number, email, etc.? The church just isn't organized for such an arrangement.


As a sister, I have attended Ward Council Meetings for pretty much every calling I have held in the last 30 years. We managed perfectly well without the Online Directory!

It's not a case of wishing 'nobody knows their address etc'.I live in an area where the Church is so small, every ward member could tell you what any other member had for breakfast. By the same token, the stake is spread over a large area and I am not comfortable with various stake leaders (clerks, exec secs)who I don't know from Adam, knowing personal info.

However one more question if I may, before I submit my feedback as suggested above.

My household information is very incorrect. I am a single sister, my adult children are listed as living with me, which they haven't done for years. Every leader knows this, yet as both are less active and don't wish to be contacted, the local leadership seems to have left them living in my household as a default (one lives in another country entirely!) My offspring wish to have their entries removed from this directory,and as the info on them is erroneous anyway they (and I must admit I) cannot see what use it would be to *any* leader.

Obviously from the replies above it would appear this is not possible. They don't want contact details forwarded to the wards in which they now live.

So, judging from the replies I have received above, is the only way they can achieve this to ask for their names to be removed from the Church records (i.e. Resignation)? This seems like a drastic step, but it looks from the replies above that it may be the only option they have...does asking to have names removed from records mean that their names would be removed from the Online Directory? Or are the names of those who have resigned their Church membership still recorded in the ward records?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby russellhltn » Sun May 19, 2013 2:30 am

annesusan wrote:My household information is very incorrect. I am a single sister, my adult children are listed as living with me, which they haven't done for years. Every leader knows this, yet as both are less active and don't wish to be contacted, the local leadership seems to have left them living in my household as a default (one lives in another country entirely!) My offspring wish to have their entries removed from this directory,and as the info on them is erroneous anyway they (and I must admit I) cannot see what use it would be to *any* leader.

I'd take that matter up with your bishop. Ideally, they'd want to move the records to where they are currently living. They may be keeping them in the ward in the belief that they are the best contact for these individuals. The alternative is 'Address unknown' but one of the steps that need to be taken before moving them there is to contact any known relatives in their area. That would be you.

annesusan wrote:So, judging from the replies I have received above, is the only way they can achieve this to ask for their names to be removed from the Church records (i.e. Resignation)? This seems like a drastic step, but it looks from the replies above that it may be the only option they have...does asking to have names removed from records mean that their names would be removed from the Online Directory? Or are the names of those who have resigned their Church membership still recorded in the ward records?

No, once they are removed from the church records, they would be gone unless they are married to a church member. Again, talk with your bishop.
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gregwanderson
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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby gregwanderson » Sun May 19, 2013 9:08 am

This situation is a bit different than I thought. There are lots of clerks who, for selfish reasons, would love it if everyone who ever requested a "Do Not Contact" designation would just be proactive enough to have themselves removed from church records entirely. But that usually doesn't happen and it's certainly not preferred by the church leaders in Salt Lake City. As church members, our responsibility to the "lost sheep" isn't so easily dismissed. I can see why they wouldn't want someone to be removed from church records just because I'm annoyed at seeing their name on the list of "people who did not have a Home Teaching visit for 228 consecutive months" ...or any other list.

In my own, extended family, there's "Alice," who effectively left the church 20 years ago while in college. She is now married with a child in "Iowa" but her church records probably stopped following her when she moved away from "Florida" 8 years ago. The topic of "the church" is a sore spot in the family but we get along great with "Alice" as long as we avoid that one topic. So, what happens when a local clerk (or someone from the "lost records department" in Salt Lake) calls and asks Alice's mom for Alice's current address? Alice's mom feels a certain obligation to the church to offer that information but, in order to keep peace in the family, she wouldn't tell. It might be easier for the family and for the poor, confused clerk in Florida if Alice would simply "resign" her membership in the church. But nobody wants to push Alice to do that and, from a doctrinal/policy standpoint, Alice is better off being on the rolls and totally inactive than to give up her membership.

As far as church leaders who "don't know you from Adam" but they know personal information about you because it's part of the membership records… well… there's really no way around that. Certain individuals, based on their church assignments, will have access to that data. Changing that would require a major shift in the church's approach to leadership responsibilities. It may be a "leap of faith" to trust that The Lord has called these people to their assignments. And, maybe we don't give the ward and stake leaders enough credit when we assume that they have no idea who we are (which implies that they also don't care about us individually). Again, having sat in leadership meetings locally, I have a different perspective than I did before about how those leaders approach their responsibilities.

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Re: removing entry completely from ward directory

Postby Gary_Miller » Sun May 19, 2013 2:58 pm

annesusan wrote:So essentially the Online Directory, you are saying, is for the convenience of the Priesthood Leaders?

I don't think the online directory is just for the convenience of the leaders but for the convenience of all Stake and Ward members so they can fellowship and help each other.

However, there are some people who would not like to have their information out there for all members of their Stake and Ward to see. In this case there is a way for them to flag their information so that it can only be seem by the Stake and Ward leaders. Which should not be a big deal as they can also see the information on the on line "Clerk and Leader Resources Site" and the "Member Leader Services (MLS) Computer in the church building.

annesusan wrote:As a sister, I have attended Ward Council Meetings for pretty much every calling I have held in the last 30 years. We managed perfectly well without the Online Directory!

I bet you had a hard printed copy in your note book that your clerk printed for you. The on line directory is no different, its just on line coming from the same system as you printed copy and just as secured.

annesusan wrote:By the same token, the stake is spread over a large area and I am not comfortable with various stake leaders (clerks, exec secs)who I don't know from Adam, knowing personal info.

What has changed that you no longer want these leaders to have your information? These leaders have had access to you information from the day you became a member of the church, or from the day of your baby blessing if you were born into the church.

annesusan wrote:My household information is very incorrect. I am a single sister, my adult children are listed as living with me, which they haven't done for years. Every leader knows this, yet as both are less active and don't wish to be contacted, the local leadership seems to have left them living in my household as a default (one lives in another country entirely!)

The proper procedure for your Bishop is to move records the proper ward where your children are living. If it were my children I as a parent would provide their address to the ward clerk so their records could be move to the proper ward. Yes, I would do this even if they did not want contact form the church, and even if they would be mad at me. I would do this be cause of my deep love for them and my desire for them to have the blessing of the church in their lives. They can't even begin to have this if the leaders in the area don't know they are there.

annesusan wrote:My offspring wish to have their entries removed from this directory,and as the info on them is erroneous anyway they (and I must admit I) cannot see what use it would be to *any* leader.

Obviously from the replies above it would appear this is not possible.

Knowing where your children live and having their records in the proper ward allows for the ward leaders in the area to fellowship your children. If you children don't want their name to appear on the directory then they can get a their own LDS.org login and flag their names to not appear. If they want nothing to do with the church then they can contact the local Bishop and ask to have their names be removed from the church records. Having their names removed form the church records is the only way they can be assured that no one form the church will contact them.

annesusan wrote:Obviously from the replies above it would appear this is not possible. They don't want contact details forwarded to the wards in which they now live.

So what, its obvious from them having a record that they once wanted to be a part of the church. Its time for them to grow up and ether stop hiding or take the actions necessary to ensure they won't ever have any contact from the church.

annesusan wrote:So, judging from the replies I have received above, is the only way they can achieve this to ask for their names to be removed from the Church records (i.e. Resignation)?

That is the only way they will be assured of no contact. Unless a missionary knocks on their door. :D

annesusan wrote:(i.e. Resignation)

One does not resign from the church one leaves the church.

annesusan wrote: This seems like a drastic step,

It is a drastic step and one that should not be taken lightly, as it will have eternal consequences.

annesusan wrote:but it looks from the replies above that it may be the only option they have...

It is the only option if one wishes to never be contacted by the church.

annesusan wrote:does asking to have names removed from records mean that their names would be removed from the Online Directory? Or are the names of those who have resigned their Church membership still recorded in the ward records?

From the online directory, the online Clerk and Leader resources, from the Member leader service (MLS) in the ward building, from the church data base in Salt Lake City Utah, and form the church records in heaven. Their name will be completely deleted and gone as if they were never members of the Lords Church. Of course lord himself will know.


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