Building reservation calendar will double book

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goodog
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Building reservation calendar will double book

Postby goodog » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:44 pm

What ever I do on the building reservation calendar is ignorded by all of the other calendars causeing double booking. If I try to block something others can still schedule it. I also have every one calling me because the want to know what days are availibale to schedule. How do I fix these two problems.

Gary

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:09 pm

goodog wrote:What ever I do on the building reservation calendar is ignorded by all of the other calendars causeing double booking.
I think you are confusing reservations a building scheduler makes for a unit with events created by calendar editors that actually book a resource. Reservations for a unit made by a building scheduler only limit who can create an event that books those reserved resources. It does not book resources. Only events book resources. For more information about reservations see About reservations and Making reservations.

goodog wrote:If I try to block something others can still schedule it.
If you are using a "blocked" reservation this will not happen. When a building scheduler makes a reservation they can either specify the reservation for a unit or they can specify it as "blocked". If the reservation is for a unit then anyone in that unit with editor rights can book those resources when they create an event. When a "blocked" reservation is made then only the building scheduler(s) for that location can schedule those resources.

goodog wrote:I also have every one calling me because the want to know what days are availibale to schedule.
It sounds like those people responsible for creating and scheduling events need to be trained. Once they know how the calendar works the calls you receive should be related to resolving conflicts.

Moderator note: This thread was split from theBuilding Schedulers creating events thread as it addresses a different topic.https://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?9811-Building-Schedulers-creating-events
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

goodog
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reservation calendar will double book

Postby goodog » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:08 pm

I believe that I am referring to the calendars correctly. The reservation calendar is only viewable by the resource scheduler. It is the only way that I have to reserve or block a resource or part of a resource from being scheduled until further notice from the stake or ward. Our stake person is just as frustrated with this calendar because it is not viewable by any one else and the whole stake needs to see this for calendaring this resource. example is the stake center and in our case the stake park. I need to block it from wards scheduling the park before the stake and wards before members. And members need to see what days they can have family activity's on. Other wise it is just a guessing game as to what is available to use. So if some one want to have a family activity they have to call me to see what days are available around a cretin date because there ward calendar person can not see it. If this is not what the reservation calendar is for why is it there? The help button does not cover this very well if at all. Our stake has there for elected to leave the reservation calendar turned off because of double booking.

Gary

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:11 am

goodog wrote:I believe that I am referring to the calendars correctly. The reservation calendar is only viewable by the resource scheduler.


It's true that the reservation calendar can only be changed by the building scheduler. But all members of the stake can see reservations for their assigned building(s) if they want to. They can go to Week view, and check the box by their building under "Assigned Locations", and then all reservations for that location will be displayed.

goodog wrote:It is the only way that I have to reserve or block a resource or part of a resource from being scheduled until further notice from the stake or ward.


I think you're a bit confused about the purpose of the Reservations calendar. There is a very big difference between a Reservation and an Event. If you make a Reservation and assign a particular location (or room/equipment within a location) to a ward or the stake at a particular date/time, that simply means that any calendar editor or administrator within that ward or stake can create an event using that location at that date/time, but no one else can (except a building scheduler). When such an event is scheduled on top of a reservation, the building scheduler will receive no notice that the event was scheduled -- it will simply be allowed.

That is not double booking. That is exactly how the reservations system is designed to be used.

If your intent is to actually book a resource for a particular event, then it is much better for the person in charge of the event (or a calendar editor or administrator in their ward/stake if they are not a calendar editor) to create an event on an actual event calendar. That is the means by which a location (or room/equipment within that location) is actually booked.

goodog wrote:Our stake person is just as frustrated with this calendar because it is not viewable by any one else and the whole stake needs to see this for calendaring this resource.


As I explained above, the whole stake can indeed see the reservations. But I would say (and this comes from a year of quite successful use of the new calendar system throughout our stake) that if the system is configured properly, it is rare that people scheduling events need to even look at it. In most cases, it's much simpler for calendar editors to just schedule an event without even looking. If they have selected the specific rooms within the location for the event, they will either succeed in saving the event (in which case, they have successfully booked the event and its resources, with no further effort needed), or they will be notified of a conflict. If there is a conflict, then they might want to use the Week view to look for open times.

goodog wrote: example is the stake center and in our case the stake park. I need to block it from wards scheduling the park before the stake and wards before members.


I'm not sure I follow you exactly here. Only calendar editors and administrators can create events that book resources; regular members cannot. If you have set up the reservations properly, you will have limited scheduling to just the designated wards. And if you want to restrict scheduling even more, you can use the "Blocked" variety of Reservation to stop anyone from scheduling a resource except for a building scheduler. I would strongly advise you not to use the Blocked reservation for the stake center (the wards in that building need to be able to schedule regular events without a lot of hassle), but that might be a helpful strategy for your stake park.

goodog wrote:And members need to see what days they can have family activity's on. Other wise it is just a guessing game as to what is available to use. So if some one want to have a family activity they have to call me to see what days are available around a cretin date because there ward calendar person can not see it.


Again, the ward calendar person can indeed see the Reservations, and again, even for family activities, it's often best to just try to schedule the event for the desired time before taking the time to look around for potential conflicts.

goodog wrote:If this is not what the reservation calendar is for why is it there? The help button does not cover this very well if at all.


I'm sorry you didn't find the help system useful. We would welcome suggestions as to how to make this more clear. Which topics did you look at? What did you find confusing about those explanations?

goodog wrote:Our stake has there for elected to leave the reservation calendar turned off because of double booking.


There should be no double booking if the system is used properly, and everyone understands two key points:

  • Only an event actually books a location
  • A reservation simply restricts who can schedule events -- it does not book the location.
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goodog
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reservation calendar will double book

Postby goodog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:44 pm

I think the problem is definiton of turms and usage. There is no way the help button give any defintion of what the reservation calendar is for and I am more confused about it now more than ever. What we are finding is if we try to block the location or part of it that it does not stop any of the shedulars from useing that at the same time as the block. We also find that if some reason the stake needs to move a ward or other activity the scheduler can not move it on the reservation calendar. This will allow another scheduler to book at the same time causing a double booking. We also find that only the building scheduler can see the reservation calendar and no one else. I know that the stake calendar person has read and gone through all of the training material and he is more confused than i am. As for the help I can't suggest any changes because I can not get the program to work as I think it should and I can not find anything to clear it up. I do log in as my wife who is an average member to help me learn and experiment. That seems to be the only way to figure this out.
Any suggestions on what to read will help.

Gary

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Postby russellhltn » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:13 pm

The ONLY thing that will book/protect a resource is an event. Reservations does not do that.

What reservations is for is a situation where two wards share a building. Ward A has it for Tuesdays and Ward B has it for Wednesdays. So the building scheduler creates a reservation for Ward A on Tuesdays and Ward B on Wednesdays. That way no one in Ward B can schedule an event in that building on Ward A's night.

Note that any building scheduler can override any reservation.

And event that conflicts with a reservation is NOT double booking. Except for some unusual situations, you should not be able to create two events for the same resource at the same time. THAT would be double booking.

Note that under the new calender, building schedulers do not typically create events. That's the job of the calendar editor. The building scheduler only gets involved if there is a conflict.
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goodog
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building reservation calendar will double book

Postby goodog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:24 pm

My understanding is that the scheduler and calendar person is one in the same. besides that if you do any thing on the reservation calendar move and event, schedule or block any one with calendaring rights yw, ym, hp, elders, bishop other wards, stake can calendar an event at the same location at the same time with the same resources as the blocked or moved, or reserved resources or event that was moved. In my mind that is double booking to different activity's at the same time in the same place. If you do anything in the reservation calendar this will happen every time.

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Postby russellhltn » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:59 pm

goodog wrote:My understanding is that the scheduler and calendar person is one in the same.


The new system requires new thinking. They are not necessarily the same. The new system is designed to allow the various auxiliaries to manage their own calenders.

I assume you are aware that no one can be an editor of multiple ward calendars. That is, if you belong to Ward A, and the Relief Society of Ward B asks you to schedule the Cultural Hall for their meeting, you can't place that on their calendar.

goodog wrote:besides that if you do any thing on the reservation calendar move and event, schedule or block any one with calendaring rights yw, ym, hp, elders, bishop other wards, stake can calendar an event at the same location at the same time with the same resources as the blocked or moved, or reserved resources or event that was moved. In my mind that is double booking to different activity's at the same time in the same place. If you do anything in the reservation calendar this will happen every time.


- Reservations are not events
- Reservations can not be tied to an event
- Anything you create in the Reservation calendar is a reservation, not an event. No matter what you type in the title.
- Anyone with building scheduler rights can override a reservation
- Default stake admins (the extended Stake Presidency) can make themselves a building scheduler
- Yes, you can make events conflict with a reservation. That's not double-booking.

Now, with that said, can you give a step-by-step example of a problem you are seeing? It's a lot easier to explain if we're dealing with a specific situation. You may also be dealing with a bug of some type.
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Postby jdlessley » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:26 pm

goodog wrote:I think the problem is definiton of turms and usage.
goodog wrote:My understanding is that the scheduler and calendar person is one in the same.
As I look at your posts there definitely is some misunderstanding about terms. When posting in these forums it is best to use the terms used in the LDS.org calendar system as defined in the calendar help. The calendar help definitions include rights and roles when talking about people.

Building schedulers are assigned manually to that position by stake administrators. It is not a position made through MLS. These are the building scheduler roles:

  • complete control over the events taking place in their locations, regardless of the calendar. They can update the details for any event scheduled in their location.
  • reserve locations for wards at specific, recurring times.
  • block out the calendar for a specific location, preventing any calendar editor from scheduling it. Blocking the calendar allows the stake or ward to keep the resource free from booking.
  • can change details about the resources available at his or her location.
Note what is missing from the list of what a building scheduler can do is the ability to create events. The building scheduler role cannot create events. That is what editors do.

Editors can add and manage events on a specific calendar. Members become editors when they either create a calendar, and it is approved by an administrator, or they are added as an editor either by calling or by name to a specific calendar.

Administrators have editor rights to all public calendars for their ward. Stake administrators have editor rights to all public stake calendars. I will not list the other administrator rights here.

An individual, through their callings and assignments, may have any combination of roles in the calendar system. So a building scheduler can also be an editor. Some people forget they have multiple roles with the accompanying rights when discussing issues they encounter. A building scheduler who is also an administrator may confuse the administrator rights as being part of the list of building scheduler rights.

Some terms used in the calendar system can create confusion unless the definition found in the calendar help is understood. For example the term "reservation" means something a bit different in the LDS.org calendar than expected. I have added the term "book" to those found in the calendar help to differentiate what reservation does and what an event does.

Reservations are created by a building scheduler to set aside a location or resources at a location for a ward or stake at a specific calendar time slot. Setting aside the location or resources at a location does not "book" the location or resources. Because the reservation only sets aside the location or resources at the location, any editor of the ward specified in the reservation can book that location or the resources.

There are two types of reservations. The first is a reservation for a ward or stake. The general description in the previous paragraph is this type of reservation. The second type of reservation is a "blocked reservation". When a building scheduler makes a blocked reservation only the building scheduler(s) for that location can schedule events using the resources designated in the reservation during the specified time period.

Events are the only way to "book" a location or resources. Reservations only limit who can book a location or resources. Booking locks the availability of a location or resources for a specific use during a specified time period. While a blocked reservation may limit booking a location or resources to the location's building scheduler(s), it also does not book the location or resources.

A regular reservation or a blocked reservation may appear to editors as though the location or resources are booked because the conflict notice will appear when an event is created during the time period the resources are reserved.

goodog wrote:besides that if you do any thing on the reservation calendar move and event, schedule or block any one with calendaring rights yw, ym, hp, elders, bishop other wards, stake can calendar an event at the same location at the same time with the same resources as the blocked or moved, or reserved resources or event that was moved. In my mind that is double booking to different activity's at the same time in the same place. If you do anything in the reservation calendar this will happen every time.
Just remember that a reservation made by a building scheduler does not book any location or resources. It merely sets aside resources to permit only the editors of the ward designated in the reservation to book those resources. A reservation excludes other wards from booking resources. Because a reservation does not book resources there can be no double booking.

It is easier to understand what a reservation is by an example. This example is very much like the one RussellHltn gave:
A meetinghouse has three wards that meet there. Each ward has a designated night for mutual activities. Let's say Ward A has mutual on Tuesday evenings. To prevent anyone from Ward B or Ward C (or anyone else other than Ward A) from scheduling an event on Tuesday evening between 6:30pm and 8:30 pm in the YM room, the YW room, and the cultural hall the building scheduler would make a reservation on Tuesday evening from 6:30 pm to 8:30 for the YM room, YW room, and the cultural hall. With that reservation made, which could be a repeating reservation, only Ward A calendar editors can create events on Tuesday between 6:30 pm and 8:30 pm using the YM room, YW room, or cultural hall. Everyone else will get an event conflict if they try to create an event that overlaps those times using those rooms at that location.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

goodog
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Postby goodog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:01 pm

This tells me that I started out with the correct understanding of terms and calendars. The whole problem is every time I reserve or block the stake park ( I am the scheduler) on the reservation calendar I would get a double booking (two activitys at the same time and the same place). One would be the blocked location and the other would be a ward activity both occuring on the same day same time and for the whole location. The block was to keep the wards from booking the park until the stake activitys could be booked. This is why the whole time I keep saying the reservation calendar does not work correctly. The same problem is happing with our stake house.


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